what exactly are these supposed benefits? the article doesn’t mention anything that couldn’t be gained from marrying someone you’re not related to, and then not having the chance of disabled children.
BobMonkhaus on
“And marrying a relative – fairly common in the Pakistani community – can offer ‘economic benefits’ as well as ’emotional and social connections’ and ‘social capital’, the document says.
It adds that staff should not ‘stigmatise’ predominantly South Asian or Muslim patients who have a baby with their cousin, because the practice is ‘perfectly normal’ in some cultures.”
Yeah don’t think of the quality of life the kids will have, focus on the social capital the cousin fuckers will get.
PetersMapProject on
Isn’t this the same guidance that the NHS apologised for and removed months back…. but now reheated by the Daily Mail and GB News for reasons I cannot possibly fathom?
If anyone goes to a NHS hospital for baby scans and it is established the parents are cousins, there should be an automatic opt out for any NHS treatment relating to abnormalities/deformities from incest for life if the parents wish to continue with the pregnancy.
[deleted] on
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[deleted] on
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DRMK2876 on
Why would midwives need to be giving marriage advice?
Due_Ad_3200 on
> The document, used as training for midwives, states that ‘discouraging cousin marriage is inappropriate’ and would be ‘alienating and ineffective’.
It is probably true in regards to the bit about effectiveness. I don’t think people are going to a midwife to decide who they should marry. That decision has already been made before midwives are involved.
AwarenessWilling5435 on
The stock images on these articles are always so funny. This is the first one I’ve seen that shows a traditionally not Western couple so fair play.
Call me racist but dont fuck your cousins.
DennisAFiveStarMan on
Even Shelbyville weren’t this blatant about marrying their cousins
mostlymildlyconfused on
If you marry your cousin and have an abnormal child as a result of the union, is the rest of the country liable for the lifelong care of the poor offspring you so stupidly brought into the world?
Impressiveusername39 on
I mean, how many of those cousin marriages are truly voluntary? Those countries aren’t exactly beacons of human rights, particularly with respect to women and children.
TheChaoticCrusader on
This is a really stupid reason to back this . If Anything if I was told a good 1/6 roughly kids we’re gonna be deformed because of this id vote right against it . It’s not fair on the kids who have to be born like this . Are we really going backwards as a society ? Did we learn nothing from the royals who did this constantly and some of the deforms and horrid lives they had because of it? And who’s going to pay for this child’s bill oh right the everlasting pocket of the tax payer . 15% is such a high chance it should not be pushed at all
sober_disposition on
It is really annoying to see this kind of prevaricating that is intended to avoid offending astronomically entitled and over-sensitive people.
Just take a clear and consistent position – cousin marriage is wrong. It is immoral and irresponsible. It is a crime against society and people who do it knowingly should be punished.
millerz72 on
Yes people shouldn’t marry their cousins; but let’s not twist this into something it isn’t.
This refers to a blog post from [September](https://www.bmj.com/content/391/bmj.r2061) which was pulled almost immediately. It was never intended intended and never had constituted official healthcare policy.
Socialistinoneroom on
The Daily Mail headline is doing what it always does: mixing a real issue with sensational framing..
What this was about wasn’t the NHS saying cousin marriage is safe or a good idea. It was training guidance for midwives on how to talk to families where it already happens, because going in judgement-first can mean people disengage from healthcare altogether.
The genetic risk is real and well-established. First-cousin couples have a higher risk of recessive genetic disorders in children. But it’s usually described as an increase in absolute risk (roughly from ~2–3% to ~4–6%), not the “most babies are deformed” implication you get from tabloid headlines. Repeated cousin marriage over generations raises the risk further, which is why genetic counselling matters.
The problem is the NHS guidance was poorly worded and came across as minimising that risk, which is why it was criticised and then pulled. That’s fair criticism. But that’s very different from the idea that the NHS was “promoting” cousin marriage.
This is basically a case of:
clumsy guidance
legitimate scientific risk
and a headline designed to make it sound far more extreme than it actually was
Which, unfortunately, is pretty standard Daily Mail territory.
most_crispy_owl on
I sometimes wonder what would happen if a political party followed Trump and just quit offering visas to countries that do this kind of thing
Bigtallanddopey on
Only 15%? I am pretty sure that if me and my wife were told prior to getting pregnant, that there was a 15% chance of the baby being deformed, we would have seriously thought about having a kid. 15% is a large number.
trev2234 on
A friend worked on a ward with children born with various genetic disorders. He said 95% of the parents were cousins.
SavingsSquare2649 on
Is the benefit just that you won’t get a contingent of the population protesting against the decision?
recursant on
Midwives are primarily dealing with people who are already pregnant, so I could understand the NHS telling them not to comment on the issue. If a woman is already carrying her first cousin’s baby, there isn’t a lot of point in the midwives giving them a hard time about it, that isn’t their job.
But for the NHS to be coming up with a list of excuses as to why first cousin marriages might actually be quite a good thing if you think about it in a particular way … wtf?
abz_eng on
Iceland has an App to prevent close relatives from procreating – as they are worried that their small society might have people meeting who do not know how close a relative they are!
[This video is all you need to watch to understand how much of a burden this practice is on social services](https://youtu.be/kyNP3s5mxI8)
DeadandForgoten on
Get fucked. Those poor kids that suffer their entire lives, needlessly.
Ok-Chest-7932 on
15% deformed is a crazy high rate too. That’s not first time incest levels, that’s multigenerational incest. It is true that the risks of cousin marriage are overblown – if you really do have to marry your cousin and your family doesnt have a history of genetic disorder or incest, chances are very high that nothing bad will happen genetically.
The problem we’re dealing with is clans that have massively amplified their rates of genetic problems through generations of incest, and a blanket ban on all close family marriages nips this in the bud. And I’m sorry but anyone who has a really hot cousin will just have to take one for the team here and not marry them. Maybe meet up with other people who have hot cousins and do a swap.
25 Comments
what exactly are these supposed benefits? the article doesn’t mention anything that couldn’t be gained from marrying someone you’re not related to, and then not having the chance of disabled children.
“And marrying a relative – fairly common in the Pakistani community – can offer ‘economic benefits’ as well as ’emotional and social connections’ and ‘social capital’, the document says.
It adds that staff should not ‘stigmatise’ predominantly South Asian or Muslim patients who have a baby with their cousin, because the practice is ‘perfectly normal’ in some cultures.”
Yeah don’t think of the quality of life the kids will have, focus on the social capital the cousin fuckers will get.
Isn’t this the same guidance that the NHS apologised for and removed months back…. but now reheated by the Daily Mail and GB News for reasons I cannot possibly fathom?
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/nhs-first-cousin-marriage-risk-birth-defects-b1250227.html
If anyone goes to a NHS hospital for baby scans and it is established the parents are cousins, there should be an automatic opt out for any NHS treatment relating to abnormalities/deformities from incest for life if the parents wish to continue with the pregnancy.
[removed]
[removed]
Why would midwives need to be giving marriage advice?
> The document, used as training for midwives, states that ‘discouraging cousin marriage is inappropriate’ and would be ‘alienating and ineffective’.
It is probably true in regards to the bit about effectiveness. I don’t think people are going to a midwife to decide who they should marry. That decision has already been made before midwives are involved.
The stock images on these articles are always so funny. This is the first one I’ve seen that shows a traditionally not Western couple so fair play.
Call me racist but dont fuck your cousins.
Even Shelbyville weren’t this blatant about marrying their cousins
If you marry your cousin and have an abnormal child as a result of the union, is the rest of the country liable for the lifelong care of the poor offspring you so stupidly brought into the world?
I mean, how many of those cousin marriages are truly voluntary? Those countries aren’t exactly beacons of human rights, particularly with respect to women and children.
This is a really stupid reason to back this . If Anything if I was told a good 1/6 roughly kids we’re gonna be deformed because of this id vote right against it . It’s not fair on the kids who have to be born like this . Are we really going backwards as a society ? Did we learn nothing from the royals who did this constantly and some of the deforms and horrid lives they had because of it? And who’s going to pay for this child’s bill oh right the everlasting pocket of the tax payer . 15% is such a high chance it should not be pushed at all
It is really annoying to see this kind of prevaricating that is intended to avoid offending astronomically entitled and over-sensitive people.
Just take a clear and consistent position – cousin marriage is wrong. It is immoral and irresponsible. It is a crime against society and people who do it knowingly should be punished.
Yes people shouldn’t marry their cousins; but let’s not twist this into something it isn’t.
This refers to a blog post from [September](https://www.bmj.com/content/391/bmj.r2061) which was pulled almost immediately. It was never intended intended and never had constituted official healthcare policy.
The Daily Mail headline is doing what it always does: mixing a real issue with sensational framing..
What this was about wasn’t the NHS saying cousin marriage is safe or a good idea. It was training guidance for midwives on how to talk to families where it already happens, because going in judgement-first can mean people disengage from healthcare altogether.
The genetic risk is real and well-established. First-cousin couples have a higher risk of recessive genetic disorders in children. But it’s usually described as an increase in absolute risk (roughly from ~2–3% to ~4–6%), not the “most babies are deformed” implication you get from tabloid headlines. Repeated cousin marriage over generations raises the risk further, which is why genetic counselling matters.
The problem is the NHS guidance was poorly worded and came across as minimising that risk, which is why it was criticised and then pulled. That’s fair criticism. But that’s very different from the idea that the NHS was “promoting” cousin marriage.
This is basically a case of:
clumsy guidance
legitimate scientific risk
and a headline designed to make it sound far more extreme than it actually was
Which, unfortunately, is pretty standard Daily Mail territory.
I sometimes wonder what would happen if a political party followed Trump and just quit offering visas to countries that do this kind of thing
Only 15%? I am pretty sure that if me and my wife were told prior to getting pregnant, that there was a 15% chance of the baby being deformed, we would have seriously thought about having a kid. 15% is a large number.
A friend worked on a ward with children born with various genetic disorders. He said 95% of the parents were cousins.
Is the benefit just that you won’t get a contingent of the population protesting against the decision?
Midwives are primarily dealing with people who are already pregnant, so I could understand the NHS telling them not to comment on the issue. If a woman is already carrying her first cousin’s baby, there isn’t a lot of point in the midwives giving them a hard time about it, that isn’t their job.
But for the NHS to be coming up with a list of excuses as to why first cousin marriages might actually be quite a good thing if you think about it in a particular way … wtf?
Iceland has an App to prevent close relatives from procreating – as they are worried that their small society might have people meeting who do not know how close a relative they are!
And here we’re expected to bow to *culture* – The Hapsburgs of Spain had their version that ended up with [Charles II](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_II_of_Spain)
[This video is all you need to watch to understand how much of a burden this practice is on social services](https://youtu.be/kyNP3s5mxI8)
Get fucked. Those poor kids that suffer their entire lives, needlessly.
15% deformed is a crazy high rate too. That’s not first time incest levels, that’s multigenerational incest. It is true that the risks of cousin marriage are overblown – if you really do have to marry your cousin and your family doesnt have a history of genetic disorder or incest, chances are very high that nothing bad will happen genetically.
The problem we’re dealing with is clans that have massively amplified their rates of genetic problems through generations of incest, and a blanket ban on all close family marriages nips this in the bud. And I’m sorry but anyone who has a really hot cousin will just have to take one for the team here and not marry them. Maybe meet up with other people who have hot cousins and do a swap.