The irony being, of course, is that the article has a spelling error in it. Amusing.
mjdseo on
Were they talking their exams before GCSEs? And have the equivalent?
Accurate_Buffalo7828 on
People will talk about individual anecdotes when it comes to statistics like this.
But as a population average people without GCSEs have far worse outcomes and don’t have the same access to some entry-level jobs and further education.
It’s not a positive thing to have such a large number of people without basic qualifications.
Extra-Sound-1714 on
Makes it very difficult these days to get into even practical training courses. You can do maths and English qualifications alongside your training, but you have more choice of courses if you have your GCSE.
AverycoldGoose on
Pass marks for GCSEs are somewhat relative to how everyone else does so it’s literally impossible for everyone to get a GCSE in English and Maths.
Adult education isn’t well funded either so if you decide at e.g. 25 you want to rectify your lack of gcse qualifications it’s not exactly easy.
moonbyjonghyun on
I don’t have any GCSEs or A Levels but I do have a MEng which seems to make up for it. I haven’t been asked about my GCSEs since I was maybe 18 and I’m 28 now, but then until I started my degree I did just lie on all my job applications that I had them anyway and luckily got away with it.
SamwiseTheOppressed on
Misleading headline: a quarter of adults don’t have GCSE maths and English **at grade 4/C or above**
Important_Ruin on
Way people vote depending on education is also interesting comparison.
Mortiis07 on
I got a D in maths, does that count as having a GCSE?
SparkyCorkers on
Im 50. I have a master degree. But best i managed was a D in english after 3 attempts. I think this was something to do with my dyslexia/neurodiverity where I just couldn’t get how to do the reading between the lines to find hidden meaning to write about.
Grouchy-Papaya-8078 on
Govts don’t want an educated population. Idiots are easier to control.
ChocoRamyeon on
Honestly I think a lot of parents try to put their kids off education ‘oh what do they know?’ ‘hows that going to help you in the real world?’ ‘well I didn’t need GCSE’s so it doesn’t matter anyway’ ‘I didn’t go to university, too many people go to university’ I don’t get it.
Education is so so so important and it’s a vital building block that sets you up for life and opens so many more doors.
It also kind of feels like governments have wanted to suppress education in the UK when the country as a whole needs to promote it.
locutus92 on
Back in 2003 in my first year of secondary school my maths teacher had a heart attack in class and for the rest of my school experience I had substitute teachers. I got an E. I’m still sore about it now as I didn’t have a chance with such an unruly classroom. I was written off and the teachers didn’t give a shit. In my mid 20’s I found out I had Autism and I really wish it was picked up earlier.
DebraUknew on
I failed my maths O level ( older here)
Crap teaching – but got top passes in everything else .
Still able to go to University and work in education without it
Luckily for me they brought in the maths requirement -years after I graduated .
But I do still feel awkward about not having a maths qualification even tho I’m now retired! . Thankfully my kids did well in maths – hubbys genes I’m sure!
RandonEnglishMun on
I only ever managed to get a 3 in maths. I always hated the subject and was never good at it. I think our education system is too focused on academics and should instead move towards a more vocational education.
oglop121 on
I can’t believe 20% of adults don’t have a GCSE in maths?!
Sebulbaaaaaa on
‘Aw you don’t need maths or any of that, I left school without any of that and I turned out fine ‘ – Jane who probably doesn’t understand why 20% is the same as 1/5
Atlantean_Raccoon on
I would argue that the focus shouldn’t be on GCSE Maths and English, it should be on Literacy and Numeracy. A huge amount of what they teach in these subjects is virtually worthless in the generic world of work.
I’m pretty academic and I’m in Uni, but I don’t imagine I am ever going to need to work out the circumference of a circle, solve an algebra problem or quote Shakespeare nor be overly worried if I use a comma or a full stop ever again and I don’t think I am by any way alone in that regard.
People do need to leave school being able to read, write and complete basic every day numerical tasks, tack on English and Maths in an academic sense to compulsory literacy and numeracy qualifications for those kids who want the option.
It’s not really fair to blame teachers and schools when the problem is that the system itself is not fit for purpose.
Difficult_Sea_124 on
It would be nice for government support to have adults retaking their GCSE maths and English. Mine cost me £60 for Maths to retake but my college has now doubled this to £120 and removed free transportation for low income earners. This puts people off from retaking GCSE.
leclercwitch on
I have an E in GCSE maths. But I also have a degree so like… does it matter?
maloney7 on
The amount of senior managers I have worked with who do not grasp percentages or statistics in general is eye-opening.
But the worst people I have ever worked with are highly educated and qualified – Chemistry graduates in my case. Absolutely zero common sense and think their qualifications entitle them to special treatment. No concept of pragmatism or how the world actually works.
Antique-Ratio6597 on
The problem with our system is you have one chance when your under 18 and after that it’s impossible to retrain and reskill
CalmStomach3 on
It’s more my personal experience, I would have preferred an English GSCE that was more about preparing me for work. I was never into creative writing, analysis or anything else.
Realistic-River-1941 on
Is this adjusted for people who were at school before they existed, and people who went though different education systems?
deadblankspacehole on
Yeah this is why democracy is a problem and will erode completely until it unravels to the degree we put a new system in place “after”
T1m0nst3r on
Jeremy Clarkson seems like he manages without them.
bongpirate7295 on
In our latest episode of “How is this Telegraph headline lying?” – the stats are for adults who got *level two* qualifications (C or above, or the new equivalent of grade 4 or above) in GCSE English and Maths.
If you got a D in GCSE English, that’s a level one qualification. It’s still a pass and you still have an English GCSE.
Tune in for another episode of “How is this Telegraph headline lying?”… next time the Telegraph publishes an article!
RikRandom on
Current opinion polls for Reform are 27%.
Or just over a quarter of voting adults, if you will.
mandem_wise on
What percentage have to fail so that the rest can pass? Doesn’t having a grade that is a cutoff for a ‘pass’ mean that a certain amount must fail so that there can be something below? If everyone did better, wouldn’t the grade boundaries just go up too?
spacecrustaceans on
I’ll be showing my age here a bit, but I never got my Grade C in Maths and English. Whilst at college, though, I got what was then called Key Skills Level 2 in Maths, English and ICT, which I believe is now referred to as Functional Skills. In my experience, whenever a job has requested GCSEs, they have almost always accepted an equivalent qualification like Key Skills or Functional Skills. I even managed to get into university on the strength of those equivalents, so they clearly carry more weight than people might assume.
Let’s be honest, though. Who doesn’t remember at least one teacher who made you feel like you were never going to amount to much? That kind of attitude did the opposite of motivating me. When you’re told, directly or indirectly, that you’re basically a lost cause, you stop trying. Why put the effort in when someone who’s supposed to be guiding you has already written you off? It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, and the tragedy is that it didn’t have to be that way.
The reality is that qualifications matter far less than the narrative around them suggests, and the routes into work, education and a fulfilling career are far more varied than a lot of schools would have you believe.
Consistent-Pirate-23 on
I did gcse English twice, at school it was all about league tables, I remember working my backside off and being disappointed with a D.
At college it was literally a formula to pass, you turned up, did as you were told and would get the grade c that your course required. I remember wondering how Bryan, our tutor, could be so certain. But he was right, we all got what we needed and it was a totally different syllabus than we had done at our respective schools, with a totally different exam board. Whatever cost us marks he must have been able to iron out, and while having to do the resit confused me at first, it was something that helped me as I wasn’t defeated by the subject
SwampDraggon on
I don’t have any GCSEs, but then I didn’t go to school in England.
It’s really quite rare for statistics in newspapers to mean what they want you to think they mean, isn’t it?
TheCockenspieler on
I grew up working class in the North West and worked hard in school etc, did well enough in exams and at 30 I’m now earning 75k in the West Mids. My wealthiest mates from back home are tradies who did shite in school but had a good head on their shoulders and started up their own businesses.
I always think it comes down to the individual though, I had some mates from really rough families that wanted to break the cycle and did so through education and I had some mates with the loveliest parents that wanted to play gangster and are now suffering for it.
sph3r35 on
Remind me again what Reforms national vote share was 2 weeks ago
Just_Match_2322 on
My ex-wife had to take a GCSE Maths course as an adult. Apparently her Chinese qualifications (including a degree in Chemical Engineering) didn’t count when it came to teacher training. I’d listen in to her lessons and to be honest as we’re both technical people it was kind of flabbergasting to discover adults had trouble with some of this stuff.
If I sat a GCSE in Maths now I wouldn’t get an A* (a 9?) because some of it I won’t remember, but I’d definitely breeze a C.
Anyway my point is I don’t believe for one minute that GCSE Maths or English Language are hard. I don’t even think the problem is the quality of teaching. On some level the problem is absolutely that kids and parents can’t be arsed.
PossibilityDays on
And they never will as the pass rate is pre-determined (within 1%) before the exams are taken.
Not_Propaganda_AI on
The only GCSE I have is a D in maths. Looking at example exams I could pass an English Exam right off the bat, and probably get top marks with a bit of studying to know what the examiners are looking for beyond the obvious.
I’d probably need a bit of revision to do well on the maths, but I could certainly pass with a good score if I refreshed.
I just don’t really see much point in pursuing them at this point, I’m in stable employment, they’re not going to open up any realistic options for me or make any difference in my life and I’d have to sit through a whole course even though I know I don’t learn well in formal learning environments just to take the exam unless I want to pay out for it.
If I could just study in my own time and then pop in for a free exam I’d probably do it for fun but there’s no practical use for me.
Njobz on
I feel like the GCSE system needs to be reworked so it focuses fully on Maths and English for some people. A lot of people have to sit 8-10 GCSEs and for those who struggle, doing something like RS or History wouldn’t benefit them. Get them fully focused on Maths and English Language because that’s what employers actually care about.
LostCaterpillar5848 on
So? I don’t have a single GCSE and I’m a software developer in the higher tax bracket. School and its associated accolades are a bit of a meme at this point.
Lanokia on
Schools put everyone through GCSE at 16 irrespective of readiness. But legally they have to stay in education till 18.
So we should (for their own good) be holding back those unprepared and spending a year or two ensuring they are ready. Or we stretch the GCSE course to three or four years for them.
But we won’t because the cost is too high and the resourcing isn’t there.
Professional_Elk_489 on
You would read this and think getting a job would be so easy
25% of the competition is dire
Only 75% left to worry about and probably lots of hacks and idiots in that pot too
National-Pay-8911 on
Passed English first time. Did maths 5 times then gave up.
luckless_lord on
Well duh, GCSEs only started in 1988, anyone over 54, or who didn’t go to school in the UK won’t have done them. /s
ArtNo6305 on
The standard is so low as well. A slightly above-average 11-year-old could probably get close with just brief exposure to the content.
DelGriffiths on
Grade boundaries are set each year based on a bell curve. The exam board statistically make sure that around 25% of students do not get a Grade 4 or above (roughly half marks).
It would be interesting to see what would happen if all students achieved half marks or above for example. Would they ever allow no grade 1, 2 or 3? Of course they wouldn’t.
90210fred on
If 25% haven’t got these qualifications that’s something of an indictment of the concept of merging GCE and CSE: I’m pretty sure (but no evidence because I can’t be bothered) that more than 75% of kids used to come away with one or the other pre merger.
46 Comments
The irony being, of course, is that the article has a spelling error in it. Amusing.
Were they talking their exams before GCSEs? And have the equivalent?
People will talk about individual anecdotes when it comes to statistics like this.
But as a population average people without GCSEs have far worse outcomes and don’t have the same access to some entry-level jobs and further education.
It’s not a positive thing to have such a large number of people without basic qualifications.
Makes it very difficult these days to get into even practical training courses. You can do maths and English qualifications alongside your training, but you have more choice of courses if you have your GCSE.
Pass marks for GCSEs are somewhat relative to how everyone else does so it’s literally impossible for everyone to get a GCSE in English and Maths.
Adult education isn’t well funded either so if you decide at e.g. 25 you want to rectify your lack of gcse qualifications it’s not exactly easy.
I don’t have any GCSEs or A Levels but I do have a MEng which seems to make up for it. I haven’t been asked about my GCSEs since I was maybe 18 and I’m 28 now, but then until I started my degree I did just lie on all my job applications that I had them anyway and luckily got away with it.
Misleading headline: a quarter of adults don’t have GCSE maths and English **at grade 4/C or above**
Way people vote depending on education is also interesting comparison.
I got a D in maths, does that count as having a GCSE?
Im 50. I have a master degree. But best i managed was a D in english after 3 attempts. I think this was something to do with my dyslexia/neurodiverity where I just couldn’t get how to do the reading between the lines to find hidden meaning to write about.
Govts don’t want an educated population. Idiots are easier to control.
Honestly I think a lot of parents try to put their kids off education ‘oh what do they know?’ ‘hows that going to help you in the real world?’ ‘well I didn’t need GCSE’s so it doesn’t matter anyway’ ‘I didn’t go to university, too many people go to university’ I don’t get it.
Education is so so so important and it’s a vital building block that sets you up for life and opens so many more doors.
It also kind of feels like governments have wanted to suppress education in the UK when the country as a whole needs to promote it.
Back in 2003 in my first year of secondary school my maths teacher had a heart attack in class and for the rest of my school experience I had substitute teachers. I got an E. I’m still sore about it now as I didn’t have a chance with such an unruly classroom. I was written off and the teachers didn’t give a shit. In my mid 20’s I found out I had Autism and I really wish it was picked up earlier.
I failed my maths O level ( older here)
Crap teaching – but got top passes in everything else .
Still able to go to University and work in education without it
Luckily for me they brought in the maths requirement -years after I graduated .
But I do still feel awkward about not having a maths qualification even tho I’m now retired! . Thankfully my kids did well in maths – hubbys genes I’m sure!
I only ever managed to get a 3 in maths. I always hated the subject and was never good at it. I think our education system is too focused on academics and should instead move towards a more vocational education.
I can’t believe 20% of adults don’t have a GCSE in maths?!
‘Aw you don’t need maths or any of that, I left school without any of that and I turned out fine ‘ – Jane who probably doesn’t understand why 20% is the same as 1/5
I would argue that the focus shouldn’t be on GCSE Maths and English, it should be on Literacy and Numeracy. A huge amount of what they teach in these subjects is virtually worthless in the generic world of work.
I’m pretty academic and I’m in Uni, but I don’t imagine I am ever going to need to work out the circumference of a circle, solve an algebra problem or quote Shakespeare nor be overly worried if I use a comma or a full stop ever again and I don’t think I am by any way alone in that regard.
People do need to leave school being able to read, write and complete basic every day numerical tasks, tack on English and Maths in an academic sense to compulsory literacy and numeracy qualifications for those kids who want the option.
It’s not really fair to blame teachers and schools when the problem is that the system itself is not fit for purpose.
It would be nice for government support to have adults retaking their GCSE maths and English. Mine cost me £60 for Maths to retake but my college has now doubled this to £120 and removed free transportation for low income earners. This puts people off from retaking GCSE.
I have an E in GCSE maths. But I also have a degree so like… does it matter?
The amount of senior managers I have worked with who do not grasp percentages or statistics in general is eye-opening.
But the worst people I have ever worked with are highly educated and qualified – Chemistry graduates in my case. Absolutely zero common sense and think their qualifications entitle them to special treatment. No concept of pragmatism or how the world actually works.
The problem with our system is you have one chance when your under 18 and after that it’s impossible to retrain and reskill
It’s more my personal experience, I would have preferred an English GSCE that was more about preparing me for work. I was never into creative writing, analysis or anything else.
Is this adjusted for people who were at school before they existed, and people who went though different education systems?
Yeah this is why democracy is a problem and will erode completely until it unravels to the degree we put a new system in place “after”
Jeremy Clarkson seems like he manages without them.
In our latest episode of “How is this Telegraph headline lying?” – the stats are for adults who got *level two* qualifications (C or above, or the new equivalent of grade 4 or above) in GCSE English and Maths.
If you got a D in GCSE English, that’s a level one qualification. It’s still a pass and you still have an English GCSE.
Tune in for another episode of “How is this Telegraph headline lying?”… next time the Telegraph publishes an article!
Current opinion polls for Reform are 27%.
Or just over a quarter of voting adults, if you will.
What percentage have to fail so that the rest can pass? Doesn’t having a grade that is a cutoff for a ‘pass’ mean that a certain amount must fail so that there can be something below? If everyone did better, wouldn’t the grade boundaries just go up too?
I’ll be showing my age here a bit, but I never got my Grade C in Maths and English. Whilst at college, though, I got what was then called Key Skills Level 2 in Maths, English and ICT, which I believe is now referred to as Functional Skills. In my experience, whenever a job has requested GCSEs, they have almost always accepted an equivalent qualification like Key Skills or Functional Skills. I even managed to get into university on the strength of those equivalents, so they clearly carry more weight than people might assume.
Let’s be honest, though. Who doesn’t remember at least one teacher who made you feel like you were never going to amount to much? That kind of attitude did the opposite of motivating me. When you’re told, directly or indirectly, that you’re basically a lost cause, you stop trying. Why put the effort in when someone who’s supposed to be guiding you has already written you off? It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, and the tragedy is that it didn’t have to be that way.
The reality is that qualifications matter far less than the narrative around them suggests, and the routes into work, education and a fulfilling career are far more varied than a lot of schools would have you believe.
I did gcse English twice, at school it was all about league tables, I remember working my backside off and being disappointed with a D.
At college it was literally a formula to pass, you turned up, did as you were told and would get the grade c that your course required. I remember wondering how Bryan, our tutor, could be so certain. But he was right, we all got what we needed and it was a totally different syllabus than we had done at our respective schools, with a totally different exam board. Whatever cost us marks he must have been able to iron out, and while having to do the resit confused me at first, it was something that helped me as I wasn’t defeated by the subject
I don’t have any GCSEs, but then I didn’t go to school in England.
It’s really quite rare for statistics in newspapers to mean what they want you to think they mean, isn’t it?
I grew up working class in the North West and worked hard in school etc, did well enough in exams and at 30 I’m now earning 75k in the West Mids. My wealthiest mates from back home are tradies who did shite in school but had a good head on their shoulders and started up their own businesses.
I always think it comes down to the individual though, I had some mates from really rough families that wanted to break the cycle and did so through education and I had some mates with the loveliest parents that wanted to play gangster and are now suffering for it.
Remind me again what Reforms national vote share was 2 weeks ago
My ex-wife had to take a GCSE Maths course as an adult. Apparently her Chinese qualifications (including a degree in Chemical Engineering) didn’t count when it came to teacher training. I’d listen in to her lessons and to be honest as we’re both technical people it was kind of flabbergasting to discover adults had trouble with some of this stuff.
If I sat a GCSE in Maths now I wouldn’t get an A* (a 9?) because some of it I won’t remember, but I’d definitely breeze a C.
Anyway my point is I don’t believe for one minute that GCSE Maths or English Language are hard. I don’t even think the problem is the quality of teaching. On some level the problem is absolutely that kids and parents can’t be arsed.
And they never will as the pass rate is pre-determined (within 1%) before the exams are taken.
The only GCSE I have is a D in maths. Looking at example exams I could pass an English Exam right off the bat, and probably get top marks with a bit of studying to know what the examiners are looking for beyond the obvious.
I’d probably need a bit of revision to do well on the maths, but I could certainly pass with a good score if I refreshed.
I just don’t really see much point in pursuing them at this point, I’m in stable employment, they’re not going to open up any realistic options for me or make any difference in my life and I’d have to sit through a whole course even though I know I don’t learn well in formal learning environments just to take the exam unless I want to pay out for it.
If I could just study in my own time and then pop in for a free exam I’d probably do it for fun but there’s no practical use for me.
I feel like the GCSE system needs to be reworked so it focuses fully on Maths and English for some people. A lot of people have to sit 8-10 GCSEs and for those who struggle, doing something like RS or History wouldn’t benefit them. Get them fully focused on Maths and English Language because that’s what employers actually care about.
So? I don’t have a single GCSE and I’m a software developer in the higher tax bracket. School and its associated accolades are a bit of a meme at this point.
Schools put everyone through GCSE at 16 irrespective of readiness. But legally they have to stay in education till 18.
So we should (for their own good) be holding back those unprepared and spending a year or two ensuring they are ready. Or we stretch the GCSE course to three or four years for them.
But we won’t because the cost is too high and the resourcing isn’t there.
You would read this and think getting a job would be so easy
25% of the competition is dire
Only 75% left to worry about and probably lots of hacks and idiots in that pot too
Passed English first time. Did maths 5 times then gave up.
Well duh, GCSEs only started in 1988, anyone over 54, or who didn’t go to school in the UK won’t have done them. /s
The standard is so low as well. A slightly above-average 11-year-old could probably get close with just brief exposure to the content.
Grade boundaries are set each year based on a bell curve. The exam board statistically make sure that around 25% of students do not get a Grade 4 or above (roughly half marks).
It would be interesting to see what would happen if all students achieved half marks or above for example. Would they ever allow no grade 1, 2 or 3? Of course they wouldn’t.
If 25% haven’t got these qualifications that’s something of an indictment of the concept of merging GCE and CSE: I’m pretty sure (but no evidence because I can’t be bothered) that more than 75% of kids used to come away with one or the other pre merger.