> While our hypothetical scenario picked a different city and a slightly different sequence of events, the conclusions we reached about the possibility of green-on-green violence are directly applicable to the current situation. First, none of the participants – many of them senior former military and government officials – considered the scenario unrealistic, especially after the supreme court’s decision in Trump v United States, which granted the president criminal immunity for official acts.
>
> Second, we concluded that in a fast-moving emergency of this magnitude, courts would probably be unable or unwilling to intervene in time, leaving state officials without meaningful judicial relief. State officials might file emergency motions to enjoin the use of federal troops, but judges would either fail to respond quickly enough or decline to rule on what they view as a “political question”, leaving the conflict unresolved. This is why Judge Menendez’s ruling is so critical: it may be the last opportunity a federal judge has to intervene before matters spiral completely out of control.
>
> Third, we warned that senior military leaders could face orders to use force not only against state national guard units, but against unarmed civilians – and that they must be prepared to assess the legality of such orders. Any domestic deployment of federal troops must comply with the Department of Defense’s Rules for the Use of Force and with the constitution, including the Bill of Rights. Even under the Insurrection Act, federal troops may not lawfully shoot protesters unless they are literally defending their lives against an imminent threat – yet such conduct is already happening in Minneapolis at the hands of federal agents.
>
> Finally, it is not legal for federal troops to back up ICE agents who are behaving illegally.
matthieuC on
He’s deathly afraid of going to jail.
He’s trying to start a war, civil or otherwise, as an excuse to stay in power.
anacondra on
>As a reminder, this subreddit is for civil discussion.
Does civil war discussion count as civil discussion?
Its_Dylan_Parker on
This reads less like a theory and more like a warning.
Theferael_me on
At least if the US is destroying itself it might leave the rest of us alone.
Lopsided_Speaker_553 on
I did not have “The rise and fall of the Viertes Reich” on my 2026 batshit crazy bingo card.
That was naive of me.
Same_Set8195 on
We’re actually approaching the USA’s collapse.
TransitionalArk on
Wow, surprise… anyone paying attention is pretty sure that’s the whole point of Minnesota…
nobackup42 on
That’s what the yellow baby wants. Insurrection or the claim of civil war. !!! But 2025 already stated this as a possible scenario and what to do. Again Doze Don does not seem to understand the word is out !!!
Propagation931 on
TBH even if Trump invades both Greenland and Canada, I dont think the US populace (or at least enough of them to matter) have it in them to start a full on Civil War. Protests ya I can see that, but not outright Civil War which includes killing a ton of ppl. Heck, I dont think they have it in them to have a massive coordinated General strike which lasts long enough to cripple the economy
Purify5 on
You already have people afraid to leave their homes because government forces might apprehend and detain them without due process. The only ingredient missing is an attack by an organized resistance that can then be propagandized and used to exponentially increase the government oppression of the rebels.
willowswitch on
Sheesh. The Epstein files must be really really bad for him.
FabiusBill on
We’ve been in a cold civil war for decades. Now it’s getting warmer.
Deep_Stick8786 on
So i think here the big error in their simulation is state national guard remain loyal to the state. I think troops do what theyre commanded to do and once federalized, they will follow chain of command, just like NG being deployed to “patrol” Washington DC. Already most military and guard lean right wing so its not a stretch for them to feel they should be on this federal government’s side
NotUfc on
If we somehow ever get on the other side of this, we need to complete clean house on both sides. I’m so sick of these musty old ass people holding power and contributing absolutely nothing and collecting paychecks.
SinfullySinless on
Girl it’s going to be -40 in Minneapolis on Friday, my car didn’t start yesterday because the battery died from how cold it is. No civil war is starting here lol this is as intelligent as Germany invading Russia.
NaNsoul on
The funny thing is, ICE are undisciplined and no training. They will be wiped out if there’s a civil war
maeryclarity on
Be really clear it’s happening. The Epstein files are bad but what is happening in Minneapolis is incredibly bad as well, the surface of what is going on there has barely been scratched, if they don’t push forward and win the Authoritarianism game after what they’ve done there, then what they’ve done there will destroy their regime in short order.
We’re well beyond “Trump impeachment” and securely into “New Nuremberg Trials” territory and they will be fighting for their lives knowing that.
On the flip side we have to recognize that’s what is at stake for us as well. Do you want to live in a society where Noem’s goons have absolute immunity? Seriously?
One interesting effect that’s not being reported on is that building plans for a BUNCH of new ICE prison facilities….uhhhh concentration camps… local boards have RUSHED to revoke those permits, and this isn’t just in blue areas. It’s EVERYWHERE, all sorts of municipal governments are rushing to pass laws against new prison or holding facilities of any sort. And big warehouse complexes seem to have been part of their master plan but they are getting told no.
And I mean think about it. No matter how MAGA you are in theory, do you actually want those guys in YOUR town? Knowing once they get there they may never leave, and they have “absolute immunity ‘?
Yeah that’s how everyone is feeling.
synchronicityii on
This quote has been on my mind a lot lately:
>Every nonlinear transformation in history has taken people by surprise. As Alexei Yurchak explains in his book about the collapse of the Soviet Union—[*Everything Was Forever, Until It Was No More*](https://press.princeton.edu/titles/8102.html)—systems look immutable until they suddenly disintegrate. As soon as they do, the disintegration retrospectively looks inevitable.
George Monbiot, 2019
throwitallaway69000 on
To prevent ICE being in your state why not recommend illegals self deport and have your police turn them over when caught committing crime?
Alpacagod95 on
Trust me guys it’s high level…. I’m so tired of titles that just pander to specific people
PickledLlama on
Super glad I live at ground zero.
_badmedicine on
America is facing its own trolley problem. The longer they delay, the larger the numbers grow on either track.
Barabarabbit on
There won’t be any Green on Green violence because the national guard will comply with the president if he takes control of them
The military will not save you Americans, you will have to get yourself out of this mess. You cannot hope for a saviour external to yourselves.
wiscopup on
No shit. I wish people read more and cared about education.
Read about the Spanish civil war. This is EXACTLY how it started.
brewguy70 on
Minnesota? No, that would be runaway president along with countless yes men rubber stamping everything this psychopath wants.
RobertRoyal82 on
He might not look like it, but he is a cornered rat and he’s willing to take the entire world down so we don’t find out he’s a child molester pedophile sex trafficker.
Your lives are a risk he’s willing to take
ShadeBeing on
I was hoping to find out what the results of the simulation were and why.
28 Comments
From the commentary:
> While our hypothetical scenario picked a different city and a slightly different sequence of events, the conclusions we reached about the possibility of green-on-green violence are directly applicable to the current situation. First, none of the participants – many of them senior former military and government officials – considered the scenario unrealistic, especially after the supreme court’s decision in Trump v United States, which granted the president criminal immunity for official acts.
>
> Second, we concluded that in a fast-moving emergency of this magnitude, courts would probably be unable or unwilling to intervene in time, leaving state officials without meaningful judicial relief. State officials might file emergency motions to enjoin the use of federal troops, but judges would either fail to respond quickly enough or decline to rule on what they view as a “political question”, leaving the conflict unresolved. This is why Judge Menendez’s ruling is so critical: it may be the last opportunity a federal judge has to intervene before matters spiral completely out of control.
>
> Third, we warned that senior military leaders could face orders to use force not only against state national guard units, but against unarmed civilians – and that they must be prepared to assess the legality of such orders. Any domestic deployment of federal troops must comply with the Department of Defense’s Rules for the Use of Force and with the constitution, including the Bill of Rights. Even under the Insurrection Act, federal troops may not lawfully shoot protesters unless they are literally defending their lives against an imminent threat – yet such conduct is already happening in Minneapolis at the hands of federal agents.
>
> Finally, it is not legal for federal troops to back up ICE agents who are behaving illegally.
He’s deathly afraid of going to jail.
He’s trying to start a war, civil or otherwise, as an excuse to stay in power.
>As a reminder, this subreddit is for civil discussion.
Does civil war discussion count as civil discussion?
This reads less like a theory and more like a warning.
At least if the US is destroying itself it might leave the rest of us alone.
I did not have “The rise and fall of the Viertes Reich” on my 2026 batshit crazy bingo card.
That was naive of me.
We’re actually approaching the USA’s collapse.
Wow, surprise… anyone paying attention is pretty sure that’s the whole point of Minnesota…
That’s what the yellow baby wants. Insurrection or the claim of civil war. !!! But 2025 already stated this as a possible scenario and what to do. Again Doze Don does not seem to understand the word is out !!!
TBH even if Trump invades both Greenland and Canada, I dont think the US populace (or at least enough of them to matter) have it in them to start a full on Civil War. Protests ya I can see that, but not outright Civil War which includes killing a ton of ppl. Heck, I dont think they have it in them to have a massive coordinated General strike which lasts long enough to cripple the economy
You already have people afraid to leave their homes because government forces might apprehend and detain them without due process. The only ingredient missing is an attack by an organized resistance that can then be propagandized and used to exponentially increase the government oppression of the rebels.
Sheesh. The Epstein files must be really really bad for him.
We’ve been in a cold civil war for decades. Now it’s getting warmer.
So i think here the big error in their simulation is state national guard remain loyal to the state. I think troops do what theyre commanded to do and once federalized, they will follow chain of command, just like NG being deployed to “patrol” Washington DC. Already most military and guard lean right wing so its not a stretch for them to feel they should be on this federal government’s side
If we somehow ever get on the other side of this, we need to complete clean house on both sides. I’m so sick of these musty old ass people holding power and contributing absolutely nothing and collecting paychecks.
Girl it’s going to be -40 in Minneapolis on Friday, my car didn’t start yesterday because the battery died from how cold it is. No civil war is starting here lol this is as intelligent as Germany invading Russia.
The funny thing is, ICE are undisciplined and no training. They will be wiped out if there’s a civil war
Be really clear it’s happening. The Epstein files are bad but what is happening in Minneapolis is incredibly bad as well, the surface of what is going on there has barely been scratched, if they don’t push forward and win the Authoritarianism game after what they’ve done there, then what they’ve done there will destroy their regime in short order.
We’re well beyond “Trump impeachment” and securely into “New Nuremberg Trials” territory and they will be fighting for their lives knowing that.
On the flip side we have to recognize that’s what is at stake for us as well. Do you want to live in a society where Noem’s goons have absolute immunity? Seriously?
One interesting effect that’s not being reported on is that building plans for a BUNCH of new ICE prison facilities….uhhhh concentration camps… local boards have RUSHED to revoke those permits, and this isn’t just in blue areas. It’s EVERYWHERE, all sorts of municipal governments are rushing to pass laws against new prison or holding facilities of any sort. And big warehouse complexes seem to have been part of their master plan but they are getting told no.
And I mean think about it. No matter how MAGA you are in theory, do you actually want those guys in YOUR town? Knowing once they get there they may never leave, and they have “absolute immunity ‘?
Yeah that’s how everyone is feeling.
This quote has been on my mind a lot lately:
>Every nonlinear transformation in history has taken people by surprise. As Alexei Yurchak explains in his book about the collapse of the Soviet Union—[*Everything Was Forever, Until It Was No More*](https://press.princeton.edu/titles/8102.html)—systems look immutable until they suddenly disintegrate. As soon as they do, the disintegration retrospectively looks inevitable.
George Monbiot, 2019
To prevent ICE being in your state why not recommend illegals self deport and have your police turn them over when caught committing crime?
Trust me guys it’s high level…. I’m so tired of titles that just pander to specific people
Super glad I live at ground zero.
America is facing its own trolley problem. The longer they delay, the larger the numbers grow on either track.
There won’t be any Green on Green violence because the national guard will comply with the president if he takes control of them
The military will not save you Americans, you will have to get yourself out of this mess. You cannot hope for a saviour external to yourselves.
No shit. I wish people read more and cared about education.
Read about the Spanish civil war. This is EXACTLY how it started.
Minnesota? No, that would be runaway president along with countless yes men rubber stamping everything this psychopath wants.
He might not look like it, but he is a cornered rat and he’s willing to take the entire world down so we don’t find out he’s a child molester pedophile sex trafficker.
Your lives are a risk he’s willing to take
I was hoping to find out what the results of the simulation were and why.